Episode 2: AI Security, Layoffs, and the HR Leader's Dilemma

Theresa and Anthony take on a full news cycle of AI security breaches, the wave of layoffs tied to AI bets at Disney, Amazon, and Block, and the pressure HR leaders are facing from every direction. They talk about what it means when companies announce layoffs in the name of AI and then quietly start rehiring, whether employees are "keeping receipts" on employer behavior, and why the people function has to grow its own AI fluency to lead through this moment. Plus a detour into Disney's knockout video, Danny Meyer's employee-first playbook, and why intentional culture still separates the companies that scale from the ones that stall.

Transcript

Speaker 0:01

Welcome to the breaking in the news. I'm Theresa Fesinstine here with my co-host Anthony Onesto. We've spent our careers in HR people leadership, and each week we pull apart what is breaking in the news and talk about what it actually means for the teams doing the work. We're so happy you're here. Okay, welcome to the breaking views with Anthony Onesto and myself, Teresa Fessenstein. We're going to be talking on this podcast about things that are in the news that relate to around and for human resource teams and probably a lot of AI. So, Anthony, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 0:42

I am good. Just got back. Took a little break, uh, went down to warmer climates in Florida. And by the way, when you said your last name, I'm like, oh, that's how you pronounce it? Wonderful. Great. Uh good news there. I learned something new within five seconds. Um so anyway, I was in Florida for a couple of days. And, you know, ironically, I know we're gonna talk a little bit about some of the Disney layoffs, but I was down in Disney and walked so many freaking steps and um and spent some time at the pool and got a little bit of a tan. So uh it was nice to kind of just cut off ties. It's just interesting. Like I know we're gonna talk a lot about security stuff and AI, but gotta be honest, it was nice to be off the grid and put my phone down and just kind of stare at space or read or be offline. So definitely got to do more of that. But uh, how are you doing? How's your your week?

Speaker 1:40

Good, good. It's funny you say that because I, you know, you go back to these times when it's like, you know, when we used to travel abroad, like it was literally like work got cut off, phones got cut off, everything's now like multiple, you know, multiplied in connection. And so I think it's uh it is funny. So do you have like a requirement when you travel with your kids or whatever, where it's like dad's putting phone away and gonna touch on work once a day, or like what's the what's your rule of thumb?

Speaker 2 2:08

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great, it depends, but I think the normal what I tell people where I'm working is like, hey, I'm you know, like I'm not gonna be responsive during the day. And what I'll do is right before um I go to bed, I'll scan emails or slacks. And if there's anything specific you'd need me to uh react to or decide on in the moment, it's gotta be emergency based and just like highlight it, like, hey, please, like in the email, put it in the subject line, please review this, um, or in the Slack, please review this. Otherwise, you know, it's I'll come back and look at stuff. So it's kind of like that, and I would do that every night. It depends. Like it depends on the night and what we're doing on vacation. So that's typically the the framework I've used. Um, and that that allows me the freedom. And in some cases, I would delete my Slack mobile app. So I I so I would get rid of that because it takes what they say, it takes like 24 hours to kind of just come down from work.

Speaker 3:06

Um, yeah, but yeah, it's um do that with my mahjong game a few times, but let me tell you, my husband last night was like, Hey, I thought you deleted that app. And I was like, click, click, click.

Speaker 2 3:17

Yes, I did. I need that privacy. I need that new privacy thing that all the other phones had, so you can't see my mahjong.

Speaker 3:24

That means I'd have to move away from the Apple, the Apple uh family, and that would be that would be rough. But it does bring up a good conversation around like as as professionals, we've gone, at least I'm guessing, through your career, certainly through mine, when having, you know, you we really did at the beginning of my career work during the day and then go home. You know, my my first job, I didn't have a personal computer, I didn't have a cell phone. I know it's shocking. That's how old I am.

Speaker 2 3:51

But now it's always do we like write on caves or something?

Speaker 3:56

Like when we did our calculations, it was all through an abacus. By the way, I asked my students, I as those of you who know me know that I teach at a university as an adjunct, and I asked my students how many of them knew an abacus. It was a big ol' zero. I was wow.

Speaker 1 4:12

Okay. That's fair.

Speaker 4:14

Okay, it's not like I used one in my in my lifetime, really, but at least I think about them and we used them in the city.

Speaker 2 4:20

But they would know a printing press though, but that's interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 4:24

So, but the idea of being always on, especially in our role, I was watching, um, I was watching SVU yesterday, and it occurred to me that um something happened. It was the middle of the night, and like all of the all of like the sergeants and the lieutenants and everybody shows up. And there's this concept now of like we're never, we never have there is not a downtime. And even people I think that work hard to protect their time struggle with that because it's like this perpetual state of FOMO, and like if something happens, you need to be aware of it. And and there's a a cognitive load that that carries for us in terms of even when we're not on, we're on.

Speaker 2 5:07

Yeah. And it was nice. There was a period of time where like you would fly and they didn't have internet in the airplanes, and it would be a downtime. Like you would still be able to do maybe some work, but you didn't have that online, or even like when you go into the subway in New York and you're offline for a period of time. It's kind of a nice getaway from all these things. And it's fascinating. I know you and I were at Transform a couple of weeks ago. I did a panel in Gen Z. One of the most interesting things was like they're they're looking to get offline. Like, and this is a generation that was born, you know, on the iPhone. Um, so it's just interesting to see. And it it is, I think we're gonna see, and there's there's research on part of um Momo, which is Mothers Against Media Addiction, a great effort. Um, we're starting to see some some of the lawsuits against some of uh the major tech players and and how they're constructing their algorithms. So interesting to see that play out um and opening up a massive opportunity for people to start filing lawsuits here. But uh interesting thing is we're we're saying in the research, like you you should just not be connected for a period of time. And I think we're gonna, you know, especially with AI, the internet is ubiquitous now. I think AI is becoming ubiquitous. So be interesting to see, you know. Hopefully we don't look back in history and say this is the downfall of Western civilization, but who knows?

Speaker 6:31

I don't know that it'll happen so fast that I'll be around to hear that. But in carrying fewer generations, of course.

Speaker 1 6:37

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 6:39

No, I think it it's I I've heard that too. That sort of not maybe not so much about Gen Alpha uh Gen Z, but Gen Alpha, um, whatever the next one be on that Z Alpha, I don't know what it is, but it's alpha, yeah. Yeah, this idea of almost revolting against at the same like revolting against the things that they learn from their parents, they see their parents, you know, that's that's like that is multi-generational reaction, right? And at the same time, going back to my some of my good friends, I was visiting my parents a few weeks ago and staying with some good friends, and their nephews are super into records now, like 45s and you know, and things that you know that was like the tangible stuff. Yeah, all of us had the entire shelf full of records when we were growing up. My husband and I just wanted record player at Christmas, like that's great.

Speaker 2 7:34

I was a DJ and I used to have to carry around crates. And so whenever I see a DJ with just his his or her MacBook, I'm like so jail. Like to me, that I don't want to go back there. I would rather I'd rather have the technology and just carry around, you know, thousands of of records in my my laptop. But um, but anyway, yeah, it's pretty, pretty interesting to see that kind of movement.

Speaker 7:57

Yeah, we're kind of moving back. And and it's curious to see what role systems and tech and AI are gonna kind of play in all that as generations like those that I'm educating in college are gonna enter the workforce with a completely different mindset. Um, anyway, let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 8:15

Imagine just a sidebar, because you talk about right. Imagine being like an executive of a record company, and you're like, all right, you know, like few years ago, it's like everything is digital, we gotta, everything's gotta be digital, and now it's like we gotta make records again. Like just and I don't know if you saw, like, I know we're getting to AI, like there's a bunch of CEOs now, like exiting businesses, and and a lot of them are true uh attributing it to AI. Like they just feel like maybe they're behind, so it's just interesting. Like these head swings. We think of like, you know, the CEO space as being a space of protected bubble to an instance, but even that that world is being impacted.

Speaker 8:56

Well, it's funny because I uh had an opportunity to work with a really amazing organization a few weeks ago in Charleston. Um, and before I left, I ran a workshop. And before I left, I was talking to the CPO and he's like, okay, now they know. But he's like, Oh, as a sidebar, I'm actually retiring. And I was a little shocked. I was like, oh, okay. I said that was like good for you, you know, always excited for that. And he's like, Yeah, he's like, I've decided I'm letting all this AI stuff go to the younger generation. And I think there is a, you know, in the same way my mom never like attached herself to a cell phone, she just like could never get into it. I know that there are a lot of people that are, you know, that whether it's uh the the take on it I thought was interesting, not because I can't figure it out, but because like maybe there's a sense of like I'm just fucking exhausted. Like I've spent my entire life working so hard, and now I've got to figure out how to take on this whole new learning curve that I'm just not here for it. And I'm you know, I think it's funny because there's you know, we're talking about breaking views and what's in the news and the media hype cycle, and I could go on a whole long tangent about the you know, the waves of content that's in the media hype cycle that gets people feeling fear, immobilized by fear, um or just like over it. Like I I just don't even want to hear it anymore. And I think that's what seeing whether it's CEOs or CPOs or you know, people that have really accomplished a lot in their careers sort of opting out.

Speaker 2 10:33

Yeah. Definitely, I mean, it's it's interesting, and I don't remember because coming in to my career like a couple of years pre-internet and then the internet, like I don't remember this being that. But again, I wasn't friendly with CEOs and C-level executives at point at that point in my career, but I don't even remember it. Like, you know, I think at that time people took, you know, Bezos and and the Google folks, like they saw opportunity. And that, and I still believe that. I think that even though, you know, much older now, it's like I see the opportunity with with this technology. But like you said, some people are like, you know what, let's just leave that for other folks. And and and bless them. Evidently, they don't have three kids in college and they're paying for they can retire. Like, I don't, I don't think I'm ever retiring. So um anyway, and and you know, it's so funny, even during COVID, there was a period of time where I went I went to a local bakery and I was talking to the owner, and I was like, huh, I'm kind of jealous of the simplicity of your life. Like you go in, you you and you make a decent living and you support your family, although that's getting harder and harder. Um, but like you're, you know, and you yeah, you have frustrated customers and you deal with all that stuff, but like the idea of like they're they're not taking on these big worldly, especially during that time, I was like, how do we manage COVID in the workspace? Like all these really big, meaty things. And I was like, I was like, well, maybe that's and I started even like exploring the purchase of a local bike shop at that time. Not that I would, it would be more of a side gig for me, but any um, but anyway, it's just interesting to see like this this movement happening.

Speaker 12:18

You know, I I wonder actually if it's how people are wired. So as what I like to call my first midlife crisis, I went to culinary school and worked in a uh Danny Meyer restaurant in New York City for a period of time nine in 2015 and uh 2016. And I was doing some like my side gig was uh consulting in HR and my work was going to school to become a chef and chefing. And I you know, I thought that would be the case too. Like I always looked at like folks that worked in more blue-collar roles, right? Like you get in, you work hard, you put your time in, and then you go home and you have some freedom. And like that didn't necessarily work that way for me because I'm still thinking about like the and I think in some case it does have to do with a person's mentality around like anxiety or whatever is happening within them that makes them focus in on that. But it's interesting. So you sent me before we started chatting a list of what was on your LinkedIn news. And one of the things I think is uh maybe a a good conversation topic is um one of the headlines was Amazon's Jesse tells shareholders to bet big on AI. First of all, I don't know who's not bet betting big on AI right now. But the conversation around like great advice. Yeah, wow, hey, what is that thing you're calling AI? Um, but like what about the burst of AI, the the bubble bursting and the investment that's going in, the billions and billions and trillions of dollars that's being invested compared to the output that has actually the money that's being made. And where do you think that's gonna land, at least for now?

Speaker 2 14:02

Yeah, I mean it's it's you know the same bet Bezos took on, you know, or uh, you know, Jassy obviously part of Amazon, but he took on the internet, right? Like it's it's this evolution, like whatever AI is today, and you see it happening. I think it's just it's a it's at an acceleration point that was so much greater than the internet, right? If you look at the history of the internet, like Amazon started doing certain things and then they pivoted and now they're the juggernaut. It took a while. Like, I think this acceleration is so much faster. You see it every day, and it's almost this race where it's like, oh, it's Claude, it's Gemini, it's open AI, then open AI does something, and then it's open, like it's just like, where do I like it's so um jarring in terms of where all this is going. But um I keep coming back to a place, you know, where I'm seeing a lot of, yeah, bet big on AI. And I think you'd be silly not to, but it's also like that humanity piece. I keep coming back to this place where I, you know, and and it's frustrating because and and I'm not mad at the people, you know, don't be mad at the player, be mad at the game. Um, you know, public companies, even private companies, like CEOs are measured on their their short-term performance. Like, you know, like they're they're bonused on that, and so that's their focus. And so letting off people gets a bump in your stock price, whatever it is, like I get it. I don't love it. But I also think about like if if you if the the CEOs that are out there that's like AI's taking everyone's job, and like if you're not like they're just the snake oil stuff that they're selling there. And I keep coming back to the fact of like if no one's working, no one is investing, like if I'm not working, I'm either drawing back my my money, my savings, or I'm not, I can't afford anything. So I'm drawing back on my spending. Like it starts drying, like every economy is a two-sided marketplace. So even if you have robots producing everything, who's consuming? Like, no one no one could afford anything anymore. And and like, hey, your little SaaS platform that supports all these consumer companies, like that dries up when the consumer companies are starting to cut tools because they're not because no one's buying their shit. Like, like, are you not seeing that? And and the thing is it's they're not because it's short-term gains, like the the the framework is all messed up. And so at some point, it's you know, we're gonna get to a point where maybe we have record unemployment. And it's like, well, why is the consumer not spending uh as much as they once did? And why aren't they in that like all of this stuff?

Speaker 16:45

They're all getting laid off.

Speaker 2 16:46

Yeah, like I'm gonna draw down my 401k, which puts into funds and like you know, pensions and all this sort, like everything like, and we've relied on these these investments, these, you know, it's listen, we talk a lot about the LPs and the rich folks, but it's also like these, you know, these teacher funds and all these things that are in hedge funds and all, like they spark innovation and and you invest in research and these things, and we think of taxes, like all like like and this I'll go down a rabbit hole on this stuff often, and I'll be like, you know, can't you see that it's AI and people, not necessarily just AI? So it's it's it's interesting, like, duh, yeah, you should take an investment in AI and vet big, but let's keep coming back to like why aren't we talking about the human piece of this and the impact there? So anyway, that that I've been thinking a lot about that specifically around AI.

Speaker 17:38

I think there's so much um especially with especially in tech, but even beyond that, of a keeping up with the Joneses, right? Like what are what are they doing? And so we're gonna do that because so and so said it was that's the direction they're going. Um this conversation around like who's gonna be the who's gonna be the purchaser uh because we have no employees anymore. And I think that goes into this conversation about Disney, you know, people preparing for more layoffs. We saw block cut 40% of its workforce recently. We've seen gosh, Amazon, AWS. So the number of layoffs. I was talking to a friend the other day, and I the largest company that I've ever worked in was about 3,500 people. So I've never worked for like a 15,000. She works for um the new she was with IPG, now she's with the newly combined Omnicom Media Group, which is a hundred, hundred and twenty-eight right now, thousand employees.

Speaker 1 18:42

Yeah.

Speaker 18:43

They think with this combination it's gonna go down to 108 was the number that I heard. But I was thinking about like number one, the decision to lay off that number of people. The what I believe again goes into what I call everything is media hype cycle to me. So, like what the media hype cycle is saying, it's because of AI. When I think if you are anywhere in business in a in HR, you know that in 2021 there was such a mass overhiring of people and talent because there was a war for talent. And is that just right sizing? So that's like question one. Are we really just right sizing where we needed to be and using AI as the scapegoat? And then number two, that desperate impact on HR leaders who are sitting in the seat where they're being told, like, okay, we're laying off 4,000 people tomorrow. Oh, what was the company that just got a text message about it? That was like this past week. They sent, oh, oh gosh, uh, it'll come to my mind and if not, I'll put it on.

Speaker 1 19:42

Cisco? Was it Cisco?

Speaker 19:44

No, it was literally like they laid off, it's not coming to my head, but I a text message. Everybody got a text message if you were laid off this week. Yeah, look it up. Because I I literally there was it was all over Reddit, and I was like, you know, the people that even even at Omnicom, they laid off 4,000 people December 1st. This recent wave was their over 40 layoffs, and that was effective on March 1st. And it's such a challenge to have that kind. I don't know how you manage that kind of communication. I don't know how you keep it contained.

Speaker 2 20:20

Oh, okay. Yeah, Oracle, maybe it's 6 a.m. email.

Speaker 20:24

Yes, yes. It was the one thank you.

Speaker 2 20:26

Because it seems pretty common. When I Google searched it, it's like, here's a company that did this, and here's an Amazon did it. This I'm like, okay, maybe this is becoming a trend. Um, I wonder if we're you know the one thing I've been thinking about. I actually vibe coded a solution to be like, like, who's who's laying off people? Like there was that. Remember that one it was layoffs.fyi or something like that, started tracking layoffs and other things. Like, I wonder if people are keeping receipts. Like, are they, yeah, and I wonder if listen, again, go back to my above statement. Most CEOs, most companies are rewarded for short-term uh financial gains. And so they're they're gonna do what they do. I I just wonder if people are keeping receipts or, you know, it'll be like, you know, Ted Lasso Goldfish, like they'll forget in 10 seconds um or not. I'm just curious, like, you know, it you know, sort of like Clarn a perfect example of like, hey, we're laying everybody off for AI and then they're hiring. Like, are those people who are like, hey, I'm not gonna join you again because you're only gonna leave me off when you get this shit right? You know, like are people I'm just curious to know if people are keeping receipts.

Speaker 21:36

And how do people, how do the people that used to work there, you know, there used to be a lot of I never had them, but a lot of leverage in the like X Amazon, X AWS, X block, whatever. Like, are people that used to represent those companies when they were, you know, when they had a different per persona, are they starting to look at that and say, like, maybe I'll take that off and not be that? reputational pull isn't actually what it used to be. And now you know, I think at the end of the day, today today it's not about receipts because in my mind the job market is so much in a cluster, especially for HR people, um tech teams where they just cannot even find opportunity. Um that I have to assume if you've got an offer for a job, you're going to take that job offer.

unknown 22:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:28

It's just Yeah, it's it's leverage, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If you don't have it. And that's what I said, you know, even in that transform panel, like when I came into the workforce, there was no leverage. Like you do, you get what you get and you don't get upset. And there was this no, you know, and that's wrong or right. Uh and I said it in the panel, like I'm excited about this generation because they just don't, they they'll they'll call you out. I wonder if that's going to change over time because it's like once you call out and you're fired, you have no work, you're not producing, you know, like you're and you're not getting that Starbees uh latte. By the way, I and did speaking of Disney like every Disney property, every, you know, we went to um Universal because we hadn't been there as a family. My family, my wife specifically loves Disney as a big Disney person and the kids, you know, like we've kind of just every other year been there. I can I'm I'm fine with it. I mean it it's it's I'm I walk into Disney and my wife um gets annoyed with me but I analyze it I analyze the experience I'm thinking of it from like an HR operator perspective. I'm like how do they keep it clean and like what's going on here and how do they know how many drinks and carts to put out and like there's a whole and I used to have a a former colleague that worked in as a VP of technology of parks and he would always tell me like there's a whole algorithm and so I walk in there like more fascinated um of the experience from a business perspective. So you know and I and of course Disney is all about the experience and then you go to Universal and it's almost like a the B team um not the people but the experience but it they've done a really incredible job. It's just you know it's just interesting to see how all of this is moving so quickly and all these experiences are changing. But anyway, it's just a very cool experience uh to to be down there.

Speaker 24:25

Um funny I've never been but I know people that have worked there and I the the thing that the story that always fascinated me and it goes into sort of the desire for HR to build deep culture. And um Angela Cheng Chemini, I'm not I know you know her through Troop HR, but she did a job at um at the Troop HR retreat last year on not just uh employee engagement but having inspired employees and how much you know 25x experience you get out everybody experien everybody's experiences 25x when you have that inspired employee. And the the story I always remember is the you know the cleaning man who's going around and he's using his wand and he's making smiley faces in the ground just to like make a child laugh and you think like what on earth is what kind of empowerment and training and sense of joy in the hiring process and in the building process because on the back end I hear it is quite uh directive but you never see that on the front end. You see happy employees happy to serve it's all intentional.

Speaker 2 25:42

Yeah one of the things actually I I when I was building Fresh Direct in New York uh online grocer very quick one of the things that I've always employed was the advisors of of folks outside and and usually like steps above uh me and it's been an incredible unlock for me I I like to refer it and I steal this from Scott Galloway but like a uh a Swiss Army knife of advisors. And so one of my advisors um I had two advisors one Vinnie Stabil who was the founder um not founder he was the head uh CPO chief people officer at JetBlue he has since passed away and then Artie Nathan who also um was the head of HR for wind resorts like was Steve Wynne's right hand person for HR and all the different so scale growth that kind of thing but I also had a friend that was at um at Disney like I said and I went down there and I was like I'm just struggling with retention of folks in a warehouse that's cold or whatever it is and they had they put me through their recruiting experience and they have what they call the knockout video. So they to your point they start very early and they're like you know they're very descriptive prescriptive and descriptive and like this is what you're going to be dealing you have to work at night or the weekends you're gonna have to wear this uniform sometimes it's a little goofy literally figuratively. And by the way if you don't like any of this like get up and walk out um because if it and it's kind of Zaplos had a very similar thing where they paid you to get out um and and like it starts there I guess like you and and to me it's like it's scaling it's that scaling of culture and being intentional in every like that think about the thought process like you have to think of every step of the process.

Speaker 27:36

And speak going back to Danny Meyer uh New York major you know Shake Shack uh all these uh amazing uh grammarcy tavern and he's his like playbook for employees is I think it's I want to say it's called the Red Table or at the table and everything in there centers around employee first. This idea of clarity on what the job is and when you talk about Disney in that way it is about like hey we're not just gonna paint you the pretty picture of what it is but you're gonna get hot as shit in an outfit that is going to be a hundred degrees outside. Are you going to be able to handle that? And there is a transparency of what the experience really is and like preparing people and I think that's a that's kind of a a piece that not every company maybe even understands you know right what the or cares about. Yeah or cares about but like what is the what are the greatest things that you're gonna experience but also what are the times you're gonna feel like you're in total hell.

Speaker 2 28:41

Right, exactly and we brought in like we we actually took that knockout we didn't do a knockout video Fresh Direct but instead of interviewing folks in a warm conference room uh or we had you know almost like a I would almost like call it a theater we actually started interviewing people in the cold warehouse. And if we saw you shaking or we're like listen if this is not for you then you can you know you you can leave after the session. And so it it just brought the experience front and center and it actually reduced our turnover by 20 or 25% like huge significant like we had high turnover and typically in those roles you see that but it was because of that kind of knockout philosophy and the intentionality of it was was really interesting. But I wonder like you know that connection like Danny Meyer sees it as a way to do better business and get better business results. You have to start there. You have to start with that element and I guess Disney too well you know Philip Morris used to do that too.

Speaker 29:44

They used to do panel interviews where all the panelists were smoking yeah and if you had a negative response you didn't get an offer we used to have that one I'm okay with yeah yeah yeah we used to have uh we used to have we do a ton of college recruiting and we used to hear from our candidates this is early 2000s they were like oh I interviewed at Philip Morris I'm like okay uh so what do you want to leave our leave our listeners with this week Anthony?

Speaker 2 30:12

What's like a good uh a good thought starter or something for them to consider I think it keeps coming back to this what is you know what is the equation what in what's the answer on AI and and it keeps coming back to a book I read when I was starting down this AI road we went through this before although AI was more behind the curtain 10 15 years ago where ChatGPT brought it to the forefront of of everyone's peripheral but uh it was when these economic professors went out after uh Ken Jennings lost to um to IBM Watson in jeopardy and everyone's like the machines are taking over and the two economic professors from MIT went out and said all right is it humans is it people who's going to take over what's going to happen and it was in a book called Race Against the Machine and it's a love story. And I think you know how do we continue to perpetuate this and and and it's hard because you're again this the the investors and the boards are going what are you doing around AI? Why aren't you laying off people and then you see layoffs and and stock prices go up and eventually they'll come down but like how do you navigate as an HR person this space of pressure to bring AI but also the pressure to be like AI is taking over everything and we should be firing people. And it's just a hard you know here we are again like COVID hard place for HR people to be let's just give all safety instructions to HR folks like here we are again and I've been a big proponent of like let's push AI to the people function for your organization because I think it's that love story. I think it's people and AI is going to be the answer. Question is like how do we navigate this as HR leaders? How do we navigate this as business leaders um against like what you call the media outlet that's you know Disney prepares more for more layoffs and Jassy is saying bet big on AI and uh block lays off people in stock price, you know like all this sort of stuff happening like it's just seems like a lot for HR folks to to handle and how do we do that together?

Speaker 32:29

Well I part of it a part of us doing this I think is a in in in my perspective about an intention to share like what our everyday HR team leaders, what do we need to be thinking about? What do we need to be considering? And I guess I would leave it with saying there are a lot of stories coming out. There are stories about data breaches and security and and for me it's arming people with the questions to ask or the information to share that puts them in a position of being able to say you know I am a thought leader on this topic. I'm not here to wait to be told I'm I am exploring and trying to understand and I get it. I've been in the shoes I've been in the seat there's a lot of other shit flying around but that doesn't preclude you from having this you know responsibility to do that. And I know many many HR leaders feel that deeply so figuring out the places that you can find moments of learning, share with your team and leadership around what the impact of this is for you in your own organization, you know, being a being a AI growing your fluency I guess I would say in order so that you can help your team do that and then thus help your organization because let me tell you as much as we want the people team to lead the AI charge which I agree with fully I can't do that if I can't speak to terminology if I can't speak to function if I can't really haven't explored it or used it myself. And so I think that's a big part of it. Well thank you Anthony this was a great I'll see you episode number two yeah